Mike Killen, How To Sell a Marketing Funnel and Why Websites Are Dead

– Funnel Hacker Radio Podcast

Websites are dying. Mike Killen reveals why marketing funnels are the only way to grow your business. If you are interested in creating funnels and selling them, Mike will show you step by step what you need to do. How much can you charge for your funnels? How can you monetize your services.

welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales dominate their markets and how you can get those same results here is your host Dave Woodward welcome back to funnel hacker radio I’m your host Dave Woodward and today you guys are in for a massive treat I have the opportunity of having Mike killing with us Mike welcome to the show oh okay thank you for having me I am so excited this is one of the topics I get a lot of questions about so for those you guys don’t know Mike he’s a marketing funnel sales coach and teaches people how to sell funnels so Mike I’m Way excited to have you on today this is a one of the things I get asked all the time and that is young gosh how much can I sell a funnel for how do I sell a funnel what’s the theory behind how do you how do you do that kind of stuff so I really appreciate you taking time for our audience today and really kind of filling them in and so I just want to kind of dive right in any other thing you want to mention as far as your own background or an intro that I didn’t say no I know that’s that’s perfect I’m a coach with WP elevation as well and you know we use click funnels and long and short is I moved into selling just marketing funnels to our customers because I realized that websites just didn’t get the returns that I wanted and I realized there was a website was one small part of this large overall process and yes started building those for customers and bit by bit other people started asking me they’re like well how much you selling them for you know how are you finding customers for it and we kind of create a coaching program for you know sell your service and born out of that you know I love it well let’s address the the biggest issue here and that is what’s the difference in your opinion between a website and a funnel yeah that’s a really good question and we get this a lot and actually I’ve actually presented on this in my opinion a website is typically what people do businesses go for when they think they have a problem with their overall marketing and business and lead generation strategy most people go I need more customers therefore I’m gonna get a website and they think that this kind of sexy front end website is going to solve all of their problems and it’s kind of like I mean if your guys have built websites in the past maybe they can put their hands up kind of through the radio how many times have you built a website for a customer I don’t know if you’ve experienced this day and the customers gone right well where are my customers wearing my sales and why aren’t I at the top of Google yet it’s the holy grail web site building I guess yeah and this is the thing in my opinion web sites are one part of a larger system that you have to have for your business a funnel to me is the exact same process that we would have used you know 10 15 maybe even a hundred years ago where you’re trying to gain a traction in the marketplace people back to a way that they can communicate with you give them something useful that they can walk away with and then follow up with them and have a conversation with them later on and a website is amazing for one part of that but there’s parts at the top and there’s parts at the end it just doesn’t work with a website to me is fairly static it’s one point sure you might have a blog it might even be where you host your funnel but the website itself is pretty static but there’s an enormous amount that you’ve got to take care of on the top end and there’s an enormous amount that you’ve got to take care of on the bottom end and once we start introducing that to customers they kind of seemed happy to blow out this this concept of one website as a project into a larger system that they would call a marketing funnel I love that I think that this for us is one of the main things you know I’ve talked a lot of people as far as you know well what’s the difference in four I look at a lot of websites kind of as a big brochure a big business card but again I think the key as you mentioned its static and I think that’s the problem people make the biggest mistake of when they look at a funnel is the ability to have it extremely dynamic and to be able to relate specifically to leading a person down a logical path to make the right decision for that customer so I just love love that you’re doing this so let’s kind of talk about this whole idea as far as how you look at you know selling a funnel what what are some what’s the theory behind selling a funnel how do you approach it how do you talk to an SAR client about it how does that work for you yeah so it’s a good question because unfortunately we can’t start the place where people want to start which is in front of a customer saying to them give me some money and I’m gonna give you a funnel unfortunately we can’t start that I’d love to have to work backwards a little bit the most important part when it comes to selling a funnel is you have to be really clear on what it is that you want to help people do we might think that selling marketing funnels is a bit of a niche but actually it’s not you know risk to take one of my colleagues can for example he helps social influences monetize their online presence that’s actually what he does he helps find people who have got big social followings and help find products for them that he can then you know help sell to their audience now he does that with a marketing funnel but what he does is he’s really clear and he says I help this particular customer this particular industry this particular vertical solve this particular problem or get to this particular goal so he’s really clear on who it is that he helps and then from there we need to go and find that particular type of customer and start having conversations with them and in my opinion it is easy as approaching these guys and saying hey look you know this is this is who I help what kind of problems are you facing what is it that I can help with and if you know that market really really really well you should be able to come up with content and posts and lead magnets and webinars and videos and podcasts that help them do something that’s the first way to get in front of the bee you have to be really clear on who you are and who you are targeting you know I love that so you recommend that a person picks a niche or a vertical and specializes in that niche 100% like it’s you can sell funnels to anyone but it’s a very expensive way to sell products we fat for example our agency that we have we just sell funnels for online course based businesses we found enormous growth there even that is actually too broad we found coz we found that we’ve had to specialize within that the two reasons and I’m sure I’ve heard your guys talk about this specializing within a vertical or a niche is important first of all you find enormous depth within that you know it’s it’s it’s actually very easy to start finding customers and a lot of the time we’re actually only looking for one more customer at a time you know that’s really who we were looking after secondly what it allows you to do is standardize the results that you can for that particular type of person I know what course based businesses want you know with some of my friends know what pharmaceutical but he’s become one some of them know what online fitness companies want some of them know what coaches want by choosing a vertical it doesn’t always mean industry I think we have to be clear on that as well vertical ization doesn’t always mean industry they can do if that’s what you want to go after but choosing a specific type of customer and the type of characteristics that they’ve got it’s the first step towards finding customers who want to buy marketing funnels from you oh man I love that I totally totally agree so tell me now that you so I guess the one more question on that is do you just pick one that you are passionate about yourself do you pick one you think you can make the most money at how do you actually pick that niche or that vertical yeah that’s a really good question because we’ve kind of got like this dichotomy between who’s easy to get and who’s easy to get results for and it’s really important we’re clear on the distinction between those two for example non not profits not-for-profits and startups are an incredibly easy customer to target because they always need help they always yes don’t we know that right but how many of those guys actually have budget to be able to you know hire your services the truth is not that many you know really they don’t and we will probably come onto pricing in a little bit but it’s easy for me to find customers who want me okay that’s easy I can go out there and I can just start you know going to networks and finding those types of guys on the other hand there are customers that are easy to get results for now a customer that’s easy to get results for is someone who will seriously see the benefit of working with you let’s say you find a customer who’s got a hundred thousand dollars a year in revenue now some of your guys are going to be working with customers with a lot less than that some of them are the hell of a lot more you know if I get 10% if I add 10% to their top line so I add 10 grand a year to their business that’s a hell of a result and frankly that probably pays for the most base level of my service if I just add and ground on to that Bob line but chances are they’ve already got revenue which means they have subscribers probably already got leads and they probably already got customers so that’s one person that I can get awesome results for if we then scale that up even further somebody’s making you know 200 grand or two million if I get 10% to their top line of those same customers that’s someone who I can get massive results for and those customers are out there they need help they need reliable suppliers and they need people to manage this overall funnel process to add revenue to their business because at the moment they’re not growing you know there’s a lot of businesses out there that aren’t growing so I would argue find someone who you know you can add results to find someone who you know that you can seriously seriously help and that may mean you might think well that’s not necessarily an industry it’s actually a particular type of customer maybe they’ve got five people you know they sell online products or they sell you know physical products workout the characteristics of who you can help not just who is easy to to go after you know I love that you know we talk a lot about the ability to be able and willing to spend money there’s a lot of absolutely are very willing willing to but they’re just not able to it kind of goes back to your nonprofit you know gosh if I had just money I’d totally do it but I don’t so I don’t know I’m not able to so I love that idea as far as able and willing to spend and again your air x4 caveat there as far as who you can actually get great results for just ties that down even more so I think it’s fantastic yeah and there’s this kind of thing like if I we had a customer who approached us a long time ago who was in the wool manufacturing business and I was like I don’t really care what the product is it sounds insane like there’s this huge market out there and she said that she wanted to get to 250,000 dollars a year I was like okay that’s fine how long have you been going how many customers because if you’ve got which is apparent revenue and it was zero for all of it she just started well to get you to to 250 thousand dollars it’s gonna cost you five hundred thousand dollars like that’s that’s it there’s nothing I can do about that to get to two hundred fifty thousand dollars for your business model it’s gonna cost you five hundred grand and of course she didn’t have that so I was like even if I got to 250 thousand dollars a hundred percent increase would be two hundred and fifty thousand dollars whereas someone who’s like some of our insurance customers who are you know two hundred fifty thousand dollars a month to get them you’re ten percent on their revenue which is a much easier for me it’s a much easier job for me and yet it’s the same amount of money so I kind of think you know I’m like if I even double someone who’s at fifty grand to get them to fifty grams so adding a hundred percent I can still get a lot more for someone who’s at five hundred thousand and just adding ten percent on to their business you know I love that such a great approach I love the idea as far as realize what is the result that they they expect and you know how much do you how much working you have to put in to make that happen that’s fantastic so tell me what what’s the next step so now you’ve kind of found the niche found the kind of the verticals that you want you don’t want what do you need from an ROI standpoint how do you then sell a funnel yeah so first of all let’s say we know who we’re going after you guys are obviously very very good at targeting ads making sure that you’re going after people I want to be clear as well that Facebook advertising is one option I love that right the reality is if it costs me three grand to fly up to Miami to see someone who I think is going to be perfect for my business but I know they’re gonna bring in fourteen thousand dollars a month I’m gonna spend that three grand I’m gonna find that three ground somewhere and go out there and flight there and find and speak to those people now the way that we have found those types of customers first of all is by interestingly telling people the characteristics that we’re looking for in a customer I couldn’t believe how quickly we started getting inquiries because people want to help your your friends want to help your network wants to help your current customers want to help if you’re brand new starting today the rest of your friends wants to help you and if you’re really clear about the types of businesses that you can help but those characteristics and you’re really specific about who does you can go after and tell people that tell them that this is who you’re going after I promise you you will have inquiries faster than you realize they’re not going to come from traditional sources they’re going to come from places like your referral network like online but it’s because you’re really clear in who it is that you’re going off great advice I love that night I agree I think what matters most is identifying get that clarity and then spend whatever it takes to make to get that client I again we talk a lot about you know if you’re getting started you may have to build your first funnel for free which get but we get results and it actually sticks and you can say hey I did this and yeah that is a huge and then obviously make sure that the the client you getting the results for is gonna talk talk to others about it and and you can use their results yeah it’s interesting because we actually say that the customers like so we build like learning management systems and we’ve said to a few of them that will give you that twenty five thirty thousand dollar products you know and I’ve said I’ll give that to you for free because I know that you’re gonna have to do so much more within your business to be able to get results from this learning management system which happens to be a funnel so that’s another thing as well as are you willing and seriously willing genuinely you know obsessed with the idea of putting 100 percent helpful useful content out there we are the equivalent of there’s a saying it must be in the US as well that the Cobblers to children has no shoes like Garth we’re really bad as funnel builders at putting out useful content and yet it’s our biggest complaint with customers when they don’t want to put that right I only laughing because yeah we’ve started producing a massive amount of content I guess some people would say almost too much content but for that roll up one reason and that is you have to be willing to put the content out there you have to do it absolutely and if you’re not willing to put aside eat even an hour a day or the week to create something that’s genuinely useful bearing in mind you know who your customers you know what their problems are you know what their goals are you should be creating stuff and getting that to them this is why Facebook marketing has kind of eclipsed everything else because I’m able to get that content to people in an easier way than ever but that has never stopped me from manually finding people on LinkedIn within my network talking to my friends talking to my current customers and saying hey we just came up with this new process on how to keep more members we come up with this new way of of you know building a private Facebook group and increasing attrition because I know that these are the problems that my customers face and saying I want you to read this and I don’t ask for anything in return I give it to them and it’s so important that we’re saying only give you value I’m not here to sell you anything I’m not here to get you results after you give me money I’m here to give you results way before you’re even willing to get out your checkbook and that’s the thing you have to be seriously committed to helping this particular audience you know I love that obviously that’s why we’re doing this podcast right now I know you’ve got a podcast on your site as well yeah podcasting that I talked a lot of people about all the time is probably the easiest ways to get content out it’s so easy you know again regardless you have to make sure you’re getting content out on a regular basis so now that you’re making you’ve identified your niche you’ve really specialized it you gone out ask for referrals you’re producing content what’s the next step they’re really selling the funnel but the next step is to have a conversation with someone and this is the one that always kills me because I’m always staggered at how difficult other people make this let’s say that Dave let’s say that you have you know this online and cost this or whatever it is hey Dave you know I’d love to get a conversation with you bearing in mind I’ve sing free content I’ve started having a conversation in my inbox you might be an email subscriber I’ve sent you a couple of videos we’ve had a few invitations hey look I really want to hop on the phone with because I just want to understand why don’t you just want to understand what you’re going through and by running through and asked what is it you want okay what are your goals what are the problems you’re facing what is it if we’re not asking we’re not telling them what we do we’re just asking what did they want and what are the problems that they’re facing we I published a video recently saying about how you know ask where they are at the moment what kind of traffic do you have at the moment what kind of leads you getting how many subscribers have you got what’s your most popular blog post how many sales do you get from your current customers because we all know that there’s a variety of solutions that we could provide but we don’t know enough about a customer yet to go to provide that and what we do is we run this this thing called the prescription which is taken from frank kern so i cannot claim ownership to this but where he basically says after that he’ll repeat back and say okay so you want to sell more courses online you’ve currently got a hundred customers but you want to have a hundred and ten customers does that sound about right and because i’m repeating back to you what you’ve said i haven’t spoken about this entire thing i’ve just been asking questions you’ll go yeah that’s that’s that’s it that’s about it and already you have given them clarity so many customers don’t have this clarity and you’ve given them that just by asking those questions and all we do is this magic phrase and I wish people would use it more as would you like some help with that and I love that they’re not gonna say no they’re gonna say yeah I’d love some help with that that’d be great which is your chance to go fantastic I’m gonna get you over a proposal fantastic let’s have a proper discovery called fantastic let me fly out and meet with you that is your hook to getting them for a fact that you are someone who hope for them you’ve given them clarity you’ve already been helping them because you’ve been giving them free content and you’ve given them clarity and now you’re saying would you like some help with that and that’s all you have to do going forward and we have most people kind of close within the next month or so from that conversation I think that’s fantastic I know years ago I read a book called Socratic selling and it was all based on what you just made mention of its questions it’s you know soccer news all it was about asking questions and questions and I think the more questions that you can ask a person just your your logical thought process of the questions that you’re asking is what builds up your credibility almost instantly because the as you made mention dilute your clients going I never thought about that or you know what I now have clarity you’re right I want to go from a hundred to 110 or from a thousand to twelve hundred sixty-five or whatever the number might be for him just just getting that number out there and then saying hey so would you like some help with that it’s really hard to say no once they’ve identified there’s a problem yeah and you know what sometimes they are gonna say no okay and sometimes they’re gonna go do you know what at the moment no maybe they’re anxious fine you know do I go do you know what don’t worry about it you’re obviously not ready for me at the moment tell you what I’ll come back and speech in a few months and this is the thing is actually a lot of people in their email INBOX have people who have turned them down you need to be talking to those people again you need to be picking up the phone emailing these people and saying hey a few months ago I spoke to you you weren’t ready for me then would you still like some help with what it is that you’re struggling with and we found that just by increasing the number of conversations that we want to have with customers we have shockingly increase there are funnels that we sell to customers you know now I think that’s brilliant I think it’s the problem to me people always think is when they get a know that that’s the end of it typically they know it’s just it’s just not the right time right now or they think you know what I you know I don’t need help with that I’ve already kind of have a plan in place I’m gonna try this first and if it doesn’t work let’s talk later but that follow-up obviously the follow-up funnels for us is one of the main things you know we joke around about it but it’s really serious and that is it for every dollar that comes in the front end of our funnel all the follow up funnels on the back make us another seventeen and that’s so critical I know I was looking through your site and some of the stuff you got on there your whole thing is always about to follow up the follow up the follow up so I think that’s fantastic yeah and that’s also the first part that we sell to customers as well is we’ll go through their follow up process the first thing we’ll sell to them I think that’s a great idea so I know one of the main things people are gonna start asking and that is price and I know you’ve got a whole webinar on how to price a marketing funnel and in fact Mike and I were talking beforehand for those you guys are listening I’ll put in the show notes the actual link to the details of how to price a marketing funnel and the webinar that might create it but you know quick synopsis or kind of as a teaser for that webinar how do how do you price a funnel so that’s a really good question and the reason we have this this is you know out there because it’s so important to me I I think a lot of people have a go at me because I believe that everything should be ten grand or 25 grand or fourteen grand a month or whatever and that’s not true I believe that everything you sell should be profitable if you have a way to sell a funnel at a hundred bucks as long as it is profitable for you brilliant okay have a real think about whether you would rather have a hundred customers at a hundred dollars or one customer ten thousand dollars that’s up to you but that’s the first pies we have to be mind everything is profitable now it’s actually a really simple process behind pricing a funnel typically what we’ll do is the discovery process will ask okay what is it you want what is it you need what are your goals where are you now and we have a really good understanding will spend 45 minutes to an hour just asking questions before we even send over a proposal can we mention tools on this by the way of course yet so we use better proposals i oh that’s that the program that we use as a digital signature thing you can measure your income you can save templates and stuff but we actually have it like a proposal just pre-written in there that we use and you know that’s great that’s fine that works for us but first of all I know how much I need to make per month and I know that a project is probably going to take two months okay so that therefore I need to know that I need to have at least two projects a month or one project every couple of months to be able to keep my over overheads going that’s just some basic maths that I know and your guys should work that out too how much do you as an individual need to earn per month okay that’s you personally that’s your mortgage that’s your rent that’s your bills that’s going out to the cinema that’s food your personal expenses then you need to be really clear on how much it’s going to cost your business to just stay open tomorrow what is your office rent what are your hosting bills what is your subscription plans to other services and you need to know that amount so for the sake of posterity let’s say I need to earn a thousand dollars for me personally my business costs me you know $500 a month to keep open and the last thing I need to figure out is I’ll go through all of those needs and those goals from the customer and I’ll work out okay well what is it I’m actually going to deliver to get them there and I spend some time finding out how much is it going to take me to deliver that do I have to buy another subscription platform do I have to buy them a new website do I have to build them in your website on top of the funnel do I have to you know write some email copy for them well they need an email writer well they need photos all of this kind of stuff I figure out how much is it going to cost them I put all of those costs together and we add anywhere between 30 and 50 percent margin on top of it that’s basically how we work all that out that’s awesome right super simple yeah there’s no there’s no written rules you know and the reality is you should be clear this is why understanding who you go after is so important because I want to go after businesses that have a turnover at least a minute which means they’re going to be spending at least $100,000 a year on marketing which means I know that I could probably get anywhere between fifty and seventy five thousand dollars for that so we’re not put a proposal towards them for that to solve their problems it’s gonna fit within that budget and they’re not gonna go oh my god that’s so much money because you have to price it like this to be profitable for you because you owe it to yourself and your customers to be profitable because if you’re not around in six months time you’re not helping anyone you’re not you’re literally not able to help anyone so by going ahead and making sure that you know that every project you price is profitable by adding that margin the easiest way to do it is to just take the costs of the suppliers take hamlike it’s gonna cost you and just times it by three that’s ultimately the easiest way to do it that’s the fastest way to do it but you have to understand what it is you’re delivering and understand those costs in order to make sure that every project you put forward which is another reason why we standardize and we have a particular vertical we go after because we know that the the price is probably going to stay pretty much the same within all our projects you know super super simple man man that is so smart I love I really encouraged it was listen to this to rewind that segment and listen that piece again as far as price because that I know when I I’ve had some crazy stories personally as far as pricing things way too low and price um things way too high whoa did I screw that up like you know what you only got that one shot to really make that deal and so I love how you do that and I think again it really makes it a lot easier when you’re in that same vertical because things are pretty common across within one vertical where it changes quite a bit if I’m working for a plastic surgeon versus where I’m working for someone who’s selling you know furniture or I mean it’s totally different and the margins are different and where they’re trying to go is different so I love that idea so great great site appreciate that welcome well Mike as we close to kind of wrapping things up there any other tips or tricks you want to make sure our listeners yeah I can’t leave out color you think I would say is when you’re selling a funnel to a customer remember that you’re the expert like I’ve been privileged enough to work with some of the guys who listen to this podcast and I have to keep very quiet because I’m embarrassed about how much I don’t know and I’m a guy who teaches people how to sell funnels if I’m saying that oh my god you guys who listen to this know what you’re talking about you do know you’re talking about so your customers are ignorant and I mean that in the nicest possible way they are dumb when they say to you oh you know my nephew tells me that Instagram is a really good place to advertise just go do you know what your nephew that’s fine I’m sure he’s a lovely guy but he doesn’t know jack about running a profitable marketing funnel you can let them get these ideas out on paper and we do that as an exercise we say why don’t you just tell us everything that you think you want to do and we’ll agree with them and go you know what that is an option but what we have found is dot dot dot and make sure that you’re the expert what you should be putting forward is what should be working for your customers not what your customers think should work for them and it’s really important that you have that and you know I just want to say that if you not if you’re not sure that you’re an expert I guarantee you you’re better at building funnels than I am I’ll promise you that so you can at least have be better than one person in the world all right well Mike that is a fantastic note to end on I’d love that I think I really hope you guys as you’re listening that take that to heart because yeah definitely a lot of you guys who are listening to this ballistas to listen to our podcast quite a bit you guys are out there building funnels you just trying to find the right way of selling it this has been a fantastic podcast Mike from really helping a person wants to be in the business of selling funnels to really understand that so I think that’s fantastic I greatly appreciate your time today no you’re very welcome and I just want to say Dave as well I love the podcast like it’s weird being on this side of it so I’m humming well Mike thank you so much again I wish you all the success in your business it’s so exciting for me to see how it’s growing it’s interesting seeing your podcast up and running I love seeing that as well so I if you guys want to reach out to mike what’s the best way of reaching out to Mike well I’m on Twitter at Mike underscore killin or you can just hit me up on the website we’ll just say your service code at UK and my email address is just you know Mike let’s say your service to UK and I’m always checking my emails so yeah hit me up awesome I love it well Mike thanks again appreciate your time today have a wonderful day you too thanks very much Dave thanks for listening to puddle hacker radio podcast if you’d like to be notified anytime we release a new episode just subscribe over at final hacker radio com in addition to that we’d love to send you a free gift you can find that free gift at funnel hacker radio.com forward slash free trial one last thing is we love giving away cars so if you’d like access to a free dream car all you have to do is go to funnel hacker radio.com forward slash dream car and you’ll get all the details thanks again for listening

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-What would you say the difference is between a website and a funnel?

-Mike gives us two reasons to explain the importance of specializing in a nich to sell your service

-Now that we know the importance of niches, how do we know which nich to get into?

-You’ve found your nich, the vertical you want, and your RI…how do you sell that funnel?

-Getting content out so you can help your customers SO you can get MORE customers

-Mike Killen talks about why conversations and dialog with customers is such crucial component to success

-The art of the follow up

-Just how do we put a price point on a funnel? Things to consider


“The most important part of selling a funnel is you have to be really clear on what it is that you want to help people do.”

“You have to be really clear on who you are and who you are targeting.”

“If you’re really clear about the types of business that you can help, those characteristics, and you’re really specific on who can go after and tell people that. Then I promise you, you will have inquiries faster than you even realize.”

“Are you willing, seriously willing, and even genuinely obsessed with the idea to put 100% useful, helpful content out there?”

Mike Killen, How To Sell a Marketing Funnel and Why Websites Are Dead

Mike Killen, How To Sell a Marketing Funnel and Why Websites Are Dead